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sarea
I posted this in a non-fandom journal of mine, but after awhile it became clear that I'd need to take this to the source. Please keep in mind that I am genuinely interested in discussion about this topic, and if I seem ignorant, that's because this is a cry for enlightenment! So ... anything you can share would be appreciated.
I'm going to touch on a potentially hot-button topic. I wasn't going to write about it at all, but it's been on my mind so much that I can't not.
I have had this conversation with both![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
vatrixsta and corianderstem, but I have yet to gain full understanding. Perhaps gnrationfo can offer some insight, because he is infinitely wise and likes to scare people. That second part really has nothing to do with anything, it's simply true. <g>
The HP fandom ... maybe all fandoms ... 95 percent of m/m slash fans are women. Many (most?) of these women are heterosexual. (Or even if they weren't, it still doesn't help me understand.) Now -- I can plainly see why picturing two hot guys (in this case, Harry and Draco) getting it on would be a turn on. I mean -- hello. Yum. BUT. To the exclusion of all else? To the exclusion of any het sex? Now, it's my personal feeling (being on the fringes of the fandom) that the slash subculture in HPdom is deemed "superior" to het. Harry/Draco is waaaaay more "respectable" (for lack of a better word) than nearly any other pairing, it seems to me. (Draco/Ginny, I get points for being UC; lose points for being boring het.)
So is it just that slashers find het fic boring, particularly in the fandom, which tends, much (not all) of the time, toward romantic banality? i.e., Your typical schmoopy romance? But if that's the case, I'd have to take issue with it, because -- hello, TONS of H/D fic is schmoopy and angsty and reads like a boring romance, just like het fic -- but w/ the key fact that it's H/D. So is it the fact that it's Harry and Draco that is supposed to make the schmoop avant garde, risque, titillating, unique? But that might be another question entirely.
Here is my actual question, which I had meant to ask before going off all rantingly. <g> What is the attraction for a heterosexual (or even gay, I suppose) female who ONLY enjoys m/m slash? As I've said before, enjoying m/m slash as part of your overall sexual repertoire, I totally get. But to the exclusion of all else -- that I don't get. at. all. It would be just as weird to hear about a gay man who only enjoyed reading het sex. To break it down:
Gay man + likes reading het sex + likes reading m/m slash = fine
Het woman + likes reading het sex + likes reading m/m slash = fine
Gay man + likes reading m/m slash + doesn't like reading het sex = fine
Het woman + likes reading het sex + doesn't like reading m/m slash = fine
Gay man + likes reading het sex + doesn't like reading m/m slash = ???
Het woman + likes reading m/m slash + doesn't like reading het sex = ???
(There are also the gay woman and the het man to consider, but for the purposes of simplicity, I'll stop there.) And in these cases, when I say "like," I mean "turned on by." I have heard it bantered around that "if you say that you don't like slash, it means you're homophobic." Before I started thinking about all this, I totally agreed -- at least w/ the spirit of that statement. Now I think there's a difference between "like" and "turned on by." I don't think someone has to be turned on by het or slash in order to be declared fully non-phobic. Do they???
I mean, like I said, I find H/D hot sometimes, but I need my het sex too. I can't imagine being a heterosexual woman and only want the boysex. What? Huh? So if I see a cute boy on the street, am I not thinking, "Man, I want that cute boy" but instead am thinking, "Man, I want to see that cute boy with that other boy over there"??? And if I were, say, watching the two boys having sex, and one of them suggested that I join in the festivities, would I be like, "No thanks, that would turn me right off"??? At least, w/ het men and their thing about f/f sex, they also like het sex. And many slashers do have a rounded profile. It's the heterosexual females who shun all het sex in favor of m/m slash that make me so confused.
I DON'T GET IT. I want to understand. This is like when I grilledleiliaxf about the whole "food cannot touch each other on a plate or I won't eat it" thing. It's completely boggling and fascinating to me. Anyone have any theories or views about this??? Actually, I know you do. Care to share with the clueless? <g>
I'm going to touch on a potentially hot-button topic. I wasn't going to write about it at all, but it's been on my mind so much that I can't not.
I have had this conversation with both
vatrixsta and corianderstem, but I have yet to gain full understanding. Perhaps gnrationfo can offer some insight, because he is infinitely wise and likes to scare people. That second part really has nothing to do with anything, it's simply true. <g>The HP fandom ... maybe all fandoms ... 95 percent of m/m slash fans are women. Many (most?) of these women are heterosexual. (Or even if they weren't, it still doesn't help me understand.) Now -- I can plainly see why picturing two hot guys (in this case, Harry and Draco) getting it on would be a turn on. I mean -- hello. Yum. BUT. To the exclusion of all else? To the exclusion of any het sex? Now, it's my personal feeling (being on the fringes of the fandom) that the slash subculture in HPdom is deemed "superior" to het. Harry/Draco is waaaaay more "respectable" (for lack of a better word) than nearly any other pairing, it seems to me. (Draco/Ginny, I get points for being UC; lose points for being boring het.)
So is it just that slashers find het fic boring, particularly in the fandom, which tends, much (not all) of the time, toward romantic banality? i.e., Your typical schmoopy romance? But if that's the case, I'd have to take issue with it, because -- hello, TONS of H/D fic is schmoopy and angsty and reads like a boring romance, just like het fic -- but w/ the key fact that it's H/D. So is it the fact that it's Harry and Draco that is supposed to make the schmoop avant garde, risque, titillating, unique? But that might be another question entirely.
Here is my actual question, which I had meant to ask before going off all rantingly. <g> What is the attraction for a heterosexual (or even gay, I suppose) female who ONLY enjoys m/m slash? As I've said before, enjoying m/m slash as part of your overall sexual repertoire, I totally get. But to the exclusion of all else -- that I don't get. at. all. It would be just as weird to hear about a gay man who only enjoyed reading het sex. To break it down:
Gay man + likes reading het sex + likes reading m/m slash = fine
Het woman + likes reading het sex + likes reading m/m slash = fine
Gay man + likes reading m/m slash + doesn't like reading het sex = fine
Het woman + likes reading het sex + doesn't like reading m/m slash = fine
Gay man + likes reading het sex + doesn't like reading m/m slash = ???
Het woman + likes reading m/m slash + doesn't like reading het sex = ???
(There are also the gay woman and the het man to consider, but for the purposes of simplicity, I'll stop there.) And in these cases, when I say "like," I mean "turned on by." I have heard it bantered around that "if you say that you don't like slash, it means you're homophobic." Before I started thinking about all this, I totally agreed -- at least w/ the spirit of that statement. Now I think there's a difference between "like" and "turned on by." I don't think someone has to be turned on by het or slash in order to be declared fully non-phobic. Do they???
I mean, like I said, I find H/D hot sometimes, but I need my het sex too. I can't imagine being a heterosexual woman and only want the boysex. What? Huh? So if I see a cute boy on the street, am I not thinking, "Man, I want that cute boy" but instead am thinking, "Man, I want to see that cute boy with that other boy over there"??? And if I were, say, watching the two boys having sex, and one of them suggested that I join in the festivities, would I be like, "No thanks, that would turn me right off"??? At least, w/ het men and their thing about f/f sex, they also like het sex. And many slashers do have a rounded profile. It's the heterosexual females who shun all het sex in favor of m/m slash that make me so confused.
I DON'T GET IT. I want to understand. This is like when I grilled
leiliaxf about the whole "food cannot touch each other on a plate or I won't eat it" thing. It's completely boggling and fascinating to me. Anyone have any theories or views about this??? Actually, I know you do. Care to share with the clueless? <g>
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no subject
Date: 2003-06-10 08:24 pm (UTC)I read and write both het and slash. I used to write only het. No, wait I take that back. Once, in early 1997 when i wrote my very first erotica stories I'd asked people on alt.sex.stories.m to let me write custom fics for them. I wanted to practice this new area of writing. I wrote two fics (had many requests but couldn't fulfill them all, suddenly finding out it's not as easy as it looks!) one was for a couple about the woman having sex with men in porn theatre during a porn movie. The other was for a guy who wanted to uh, have himself depicted as being abducted by a bunch of guys, raped and forced to have sex with a horse. or maybe it was a dog, Hell I dunno. So that was my first slashy type story. Yes, I know it sounds very gross -- the horse and dog part. He wanted it to take place in a barn -- hey I gave him a barn, lol:) I remember his name was Scott. I think I called it Scott Goes All the Way or something like that.
But I never got turned on my it till Harry Potter.
I don't think that if you don't want to see homosexual people having sex or read about it that you are afraid of or disgusted by homosexual people. I believe that it's perfectly fine and normal. Just as I don't expect homosexual people to crave reading about het sex or watching het porn. Now just because some gay people don't find het stuff interesting or arousing and might even find it gross doesn't offend me in the least and it's their minds, their choice...who the hell am I to say what people HAVE TO LIKE or else be banished/labelled/cruxified? That's plain stupid.
So anyone who writes slash exclusively -- what's the dealio? Is it a mood? Is it the only fiction you get turned on by writing? Do you still read het and get turned on by it and just don't feel like writing it?
there are no wrong answers:)