You know nothing, Jon Snow.
May. 14th, 2012 11:23 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sarea
Spring has arrived at last! I am LOVING the long, warm days. What I don't love so much? THE DAMN BIRDS. They're constantly trying to break into my house! Pecking at the chimney stack super early in the morning, setting Talis off, which wakes me from a sound sleep, and also they're trying to get into the attic. I hope those bird repellers I had installed hold out... I hated hearing the birds scuffling around in there in the mornings.
Had a fabulous weekend that consisted of meals and Pandemic withadelagia (though we did not win a SINGLE game). We had a great lunch at Boiling Point and a pretty darn good dinner at Rikki Rikki. It's amazing we didn't choke on our food because we started quoting Jimmy Fallon's "Downton Sixbey," and much hilarity ensued. Then there was Tilth brunch on Sunday with K. and her fam, and I'll admit right now that despite being family, being around those small children is very, very challenging for me. I'm just not a kid person. At all.
I've also been learning how to make fabulous beef roasts. I've been pretty happy with the results I've gotten so far, though I have yet to get a perfect medium rare -- that is my ultimate goal. And tonight is The Avengers with K.! We already have our tickets and everything.
Plus there is Game of Thrones.jade_okelani has now watched the first 3 episodes! Wheeeeeeee! She hates Sansa, but that's no surprise. Everyone hates Sansa at first. You'd be kind of weird if you didn't. After awhile, though, that forks into people who hate Sansa and people who love Sansa. I fall into the latter camp.
- I don't know if they're changing a whole bunch of things from canon or if I just don't remember everything that happened, but I found myself questioning almost every scene. I don't mind some of the changes; they're necessary for the show and often speed things up nicely. Other things, however, I seriously wonder WTF they're doing and why GRRM is letting them.
- Did Jaime and Catelyn have that exchange in the books? I seem to think that they didn't. I remember hating Jaime for how despicable he was until we saw his side of things... which doesn't happen until ASOS because that's when he gets POV chapters. And it's not so much that his POV suddenly makes him a good person... he's still the same dude who pushed Bran off that ledge, after all. It's just you see that Jaime really knows who he is, or at least, you see that he knows what's important to him and what he's willing to do for it; that he sees and acknowledges -- which many people don't, including us the readers and other characters in the books -- the hypocrisy that governs their codes of honor, and he refuses to abide by it. When he does the things he does, he does it with his own kind of moral code, which may or may not have anything in common with anyone else's. This was a very good review of this week's episode, in particularly the analysis about Jaime. I liked this passage in particular:
"But what makes Jaime so compelling, and so worthy of our continued attention, is this fact: Despite the horrible things he's done, he knows who and what he is. He's actually a lot like Tyrion, in that he's aware that people have pre-judged him, and as a result, he wears his cynicism like armor. But Jaime is hated not just because he killed a king, but because he's a living, breathing symbol of something the people of Westeros don't want to face: He's a reminder that their system is full of unreconcilable contradictions. How could he continue to serve a king who was roasting alive those who served him and slaughtering the innocent smallfolk? Where was the honor in that? It's a valid question that lots of people in Westeros don't want to face.
In his view, Jaime embraced a larger truth that allowed him to forsake his vow and kill his king. He did what nobody else was willing to do and which arguably needed to be done; in way, he made a sacrifice for Westeros."
And that is why I could never fully get behind Ned Stark. He treated those contradictions as if they didn't exist. He put too much stock in the notion of what honor meant in a black and white world... but we don't live in such a world. No one does.
- I don't remember Jaime killing his own kinsman to escape, did that happen in the books? I loved the exchange between him and Catelyn, though, because it finally showed us the Jaime I grew to like in the books (even if it's coming prematurely on the show). Plus anyone who takes Catelyn down a peg or two is a hero in my eyes... especially when calling her on her horrendous treatment of Jon.
- Jon is my favorite character in the books, but I've noticed that people who don't read the books and only watch the show don't have the same appreciation of him. And I can kind of see why, because so much of why you grow to love Jon is because of how other people see/treat him, which is greatly lessened on the show. Plus his and Dany's experiences north of the Wall and across the Narrow Sea are more interesting to read about than watch, I guess. In any case, his adventures on screen have been a little dull of late, so I'm glad to see that changing now. :D
- I looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove Rose Leslie as Ygritte!! I like her way, way more on the show than I do in the books. To be honest I didn't care for her much in the books.
Her delivery of "You know nothing, Jon Snow," was PERFECT. That was a saying that I got super annoyed with in the books (in my head, I'd always think, "YOU know nothing, Ygritte!"), but when Rose Leslie said it last night I actually clapped with glee. Also? Totally agree withakscully that her constant trolling of Jon is the best thing ever. It brings me much joy. It's fully in character, too; book!Ygritte is SO INTO Jon. She's totally shameless (and annoying) about it. That's why I just wanted her to GET AWAY from him. She was so obvious and pathetic, and everything she did was to get him in the sack, to manipulate him so that he ended up there. It was distasteful to me that he should care for someone like that. But Rose Leslie's Ygritte is totally charming.
- One of the things they're doing that I am totally hating -- or if not hating, totally WTF about -- is how they're turning Tywin into some kind of doting grandfather for Arya. WTFFFFFFFFFFF. I mean, Tywin is a total dick in the books! It got to a point where you kind of felt sorry for Jaime and Cersei for having a dad like that (up til then they seem the most villainous). And now he's taking Arya under his wing??? I mean, I had issues with Arya being his cupbearer in the first place, which never happens in the books. But okay, I can accept that they're trying to consolidate scenes, which is fine if Tywin's dismissive of her, but he's like, being her champion! WE AREN'T SUPPOSED TO LIKE TYWIN. I don't know what damage the show has about that, where they're trying to make previously unlikable characters, likable. Specifically Tywin, Cersei, and Shae. It makes things super uninteresting, actually. I LIKE that some people are just jerks/out for themselves. What's next, are we going to see a softer side of Ramsay Snow? Ugh.
Back to Tywin -- his behavior toward Arya is SO out of character and not in a good way. I mean, again, it just makes him look really dumb for not realizing who she is, given the fact that a) she was lying by posing as a boy to begin with; b) her dad being a stone mason is an obvious lie; c) he revealed her as a girl and then as a northerner; d) she said her father died due to LOYALTY, for god's sake; and e) Tywin has now revealed that he suspects she's highborn! I mean, her excuses would be stronger if not for all those things together. But now that they all exist, we're still supposed to take Tywin seriously as a great thinker/leader when he can't even put 2+2 together?!?! And yes, REGARDLESS of the fact that I'm assuming for the moment Cersei and Tyrion haven't told him that the second Stark daughter is missing so he wouldn't think to be on the lookout for her. If I were him, I'd be suspicious enough to send a raven and be like, "So, um, are you guys SURE you have the second Stark girl? Like, really, really sure? Pinky swear on it!"
- Dany stopped being awesome after GoT in the books, and she's following that same path on the show. I'm finding the actress more and more annoying as she attempts to seem powerful. Every time someone kicks her down a notch I find myself inwardly cheering.
- I also am kind of WTF over what they're doing with Shae. I hated her in the books and I hate her on the show. She is a vain, selfish creature -- SINCE WHEN is she on anyone's side but her own?! And being all mama bear with Sansa makes NO SENSE. Why would she give a shit about Sansa or what happens to her? Sansa has everything Shae wants! Shae'd probably be happy if terrible things happened to Sansa! Also, threatening the serving girl who was going to tell Cersei about Sansa's period? What good would that have done? Is Shae scarier than Cersei? I THINK NOT. All that girl would have had to do was tell Cersei ANYway, then have Shae killed/punished for trying to keep it from the Queen. Shae would know that, and it's totally out of character for her to risk her own neck to protect Sansa. (BTW, that was the most blood ever for a girl having her period for the first time. O.o I mean, for only a few hours of bleeding.)akscully points out that most of Sansa's chapters are all internal monologues, so it's good for her to have someone to talk to, but couldn't that person be the Hound??? They ACTUALLY DO TALK in the books! Way more than on the show! (Only recently are they acknowledging that!) Also, I was kind of hoping that when the Hound saw what Sansa and Shae were doing, that he'd wordlessly flip the mattress over for them -- the fact that he apparently went to Cersei about it is ugh, especially because that DOESN'T happen in the books. Why couldn't it have been someone else more obviously on Cersei's side? Why taint the Hound?
It's like, they're taking the one story that actually WAS sweet and pure, with the Hound having an unknown good side, and ruining it, while taking other stories and making people good that were previously bad. WTF? STOP IT. YOU ARE MAKING IT NOT AS GOOD!
- A. also reminded me that Xaro Xhoan Daxos is gay in the books. Maybe they just haven't shown us that yet? I'll be annoyed if they change it though -- I mean, there aren't that many homosexual characters in mainstream fiction to begin with, so why change that for no reason??
- Ugh, Theon's continued fall from grace is awful. Those burned bodies were so terrible to see, even more so than in my imagination. I'm not sure what that one dude found in the hay that got Theon to prompt them to take Maester Luwin away? I assume something that sparked the idea for killing those other poor kids (which they have yet to explain, but which almost doesn't matter on the show, given that we know perfectly well Bran and Rickon are safe. NOT the case in the book, wherein we totally think for a few chapters that those burned bodies ARE the boys).
- I am still totally and completely mystified by the nurse chick. IS THAT JEYNE WESTERLING OR NOT??????? Or is that a whole new character who will serve the same purpose Jeyne served in the book? I'm 50/50 on it. On the one hand, it's been implied that she's actually a noblewoman, which would make her more likely to be Jeyne, just with an air of mystery that she didn't have in the book. On the other hand, she does seem to have an accent (or maybe it's just my imagination), and she has more exotic looks, so maybe they are just making her a whole different character. She's definitely been made way more useful than Jeyne was, that's for sure. Jeyne was such a nothing bore of a character, the stereotypical pretty highborn girl who apparently caught Robb's attention because of we-don't-know-why. So in that sense, I would understand why they're trying to make her more interesting/have the audience understand better why Robb would make such a horrible tactical move as to marry her when he's made promises to the Freys.
Had a fabulous weekend that consisted of meals and Pandemic with
adelagia (though we did not win a SINGLE game). We had a great lunch at Boiling Point and a pretty darn good dinner at Rikki Rikki. It's amazing we didn't choke on our food because we started quoting Jimmy Fallon's "Downton Sixbey," and much hilarity ensued. Then there was Tilth brunch on Sunday with K. and her fam, and I'll admit right now that despite being family, being around those small children is very, very challenging for me. I'm just not a kid person. At all.I've also been learning how to make fabulous beef roasts. I've been pretty happy with the results I've gotten so far, though I have yet to get a perfect medium rare -- that is my ultimate goal. And tonight is The Avengers with K.! We already have our tickets and everything.
Plus there is Game of Thrones.
jade_okelani has now watched the first 3 episodes! Wheeeeeeee! She hates Sansa, but that's no surprise. Everyone hates Sansa at first. You'd be kind of weird if you didn't. After awhile, though, that forks into people who hate Sansa and people who love Sansa. I fall into the latter camp.- I don't know if they're changing a whole bunch of things from canon or if I just don't remember everything that happened, but I found myself questioning almost every scene. I don't mind some of the changes; they're necessary for the show and often speed things up nicely. Other things, however, I seriously wonder WTF they're doing and why GRRM is letting them.
- Did Jaime and Catelyn have that exchange in the books? I seem to think that they didn't. I remember hating Jaime for how despicable he was until we saw his side of things... which doesn't happen until ASOS because that's when he gets POV chapters. And it's not so much that his POV suddenly makes him a good person... he's still the same dude who pushed Bran off that ledge, after all. It's just you see that Jaime really knows who he is, or at least, you see that he knows what's important to him and what he's willing to do for it; that he sees and acknowledges -- which many people don't, including us the readers and other characters in the books -- the hypocrisy that governs their codes of honor, and he refuses to abide by it. When he does the things he does, he does it with his own kind of moral code, which may or may not have anything in common with anyone else's. This was a very good review of this week's episode, in particularly the analysis about Jaime. I liked this passage in particular:
"But what makes Jaime so compelling, and so worthy of our continued attention, is this fact: Despite the horrible things he's done, he knows who and what he is. He's actually a lot like Tyrion, in that he's aware that people have pre-judged him, and as a result, he wears his cynicism like armor. But Jaime is hated not just because he killed a king, but because he's a living, breathing symbol of something the people of Westeros don't want to face: He's a reminder that their system is full of unreconcilable contradictions. How could he continue to serve a king who was roasting alive those who served him and slaughtering the innocent smallfolk? Where was the honor in that? It's a valid question that lots of people in Westeros don't want to face.
In his view, Jaime embraced a larger truth that allowed him to forsake his vow and kill his king. He did what nobody else was willing to do and which arguably needed to be done; in way, he made a sacrifice for Westeros."
And that is why I could never fully get behind Ned Stark. He treated those contradictions as if they didn't exist. He put too much stock in the notion of what honor meant in a black and white world... but we don't live in such a world. No one does.
- I don't remember Jaime killing his own kinsman to escape, did that happen in the books? I loved the exchange between him and Catelyn, though, because it finally showed us the Jaime I grew to like in the books (even if it's coming prematurely on the show). Plus anyone who takes Catelyn down a peg or two is a hero in my eyes... especially when calling her on her horrendous treatment of Jon.
- I hope they do a better job on the show of explaining why Catelyn does what she does in freeing Jaime, than in the books. I've never understood her reasoning for it; it just seemed really stupid, selfish and willful. In fact, there's already enough good setup for it on the show (and maybe it's the same as in the books and I just didn't "get" it) -- Robb's men are in danger of killing Jaime anyway, so she might as well get some use out of him before that happens. Then again, given that she has told Jaime that he is a man without honor, how can she trust someone like that to do what he says he will? And risk someone as important to the Lannisters and as good a fighter as Jaime is, to go free?
- Jon is my favorite character in the books, but I've noticed that people who don't read the books and only watch the show don't have the same appreciation of him. And I can kind of see why, because so much of why you grow to love Jon is because of how other people see/treat him, which is greatly lessened on the show. Plus his and Dany's experiences north of the Wall and across the Narrow Sea are more interesting to read about than watch, I guess. In any case, his adventures on screen have been a little dull of late, so I'm glad to see that changing now. :D
- I looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove Rose Leslie as Ygritte!! I like her way, way more on the show than I do in the books. To be honest I didn't care for her much in the books.
I was glad when Jon 'betrayed' her by keeping his Night's Watch vows, and later when she died, so she wouldn't be the one he ended up with forevermore. Now I might feel a bit regretful of that.
Her delivery of "You know nothing, Jon Snow," was PERFECT. That was a saying that I got super annoyed with in the books (in my head, I'd always think, "YOU know nothing, Ygritte!"), but when Rose Leslie said it last night I actually clapped with glee. Also? Totally agree with
akscully that her constant trolling of Jon is the best thing ever. It brings me much joy. It's fully in character, too; book!Ygritte is SO INTO Jon. She's totally shameless (and annoying) about it. That's why I just wanted her to GET AWAY from him. She was so obvious and pathetic, and everything she did was to get him in the sack, to manipulate him so that he ended up there. It was distasteful to me that he should care for someone like that. But Rose Leslie's Ygritte is totally charming.- One of the things they're doing that I am totally hating -- or if not hating, totally WTF about -- is how they're turning Tywin into some kind of doting grandfather for Arya. WTFFFFFFFFFFF. I mean, Tywin is a total dick in the books! It got to a point where you kind of felt sorry for Jaime and Cersei for having a dad like that (up til then they seem the most villainous). And now he's taking Arya under his wing??? I mean, I had issues with Arya being his cupbearer in the first place, which never happens in the books. But okay, I can accept that they're trying to consolidate scenes, which is fine if Tywin's dismissive of her, but he's like, being her champion! WE AREN'T SUPPOSED TO LIKE TYWIN. I don't know what damage the show has about that, where they're trying to make previously unlikable characters, likable. Specifically Tywin, Cersei, and Shae. It makes things super uninteresting, actually. I LIKE that some people are just jerks/out for themselves. What's next, are we going to see a softer side of Ramsay Snow? Ugh.
Back to Tywin -- his behavior toward Arya is SO out of character and not in a good way. I mean, again, it just makes him look really dumb for not realizing who she is, given the fact that a) she was lying by posing as a boy to begin with; b) her dad being a stone mason is an obvious lie; c) he revealed her as a girl and then as a northerner; d) she said her father died due to LOYALTY, for god's sake; and e) Tywin has now revealed that he suspects she's highborn! I mean, her excuses would be stronger if not for all those things together. But now that they all exist, we're still supposed to take Tywin seriously as a great thinker/leader when he can't even put 2+2 together?!?! And yes, REGARDLESS of the fact that I'm assuming for the moment Cersei and Tyrion haven't told him that the second Stark daughter is missing so he wouldn't think to be on the lookout for her. If I were him, I'd be suspicious enough to send a raven and be like, "So, um, are you guys SURE you have the second Stark girl? Like, really, really sure? Pinky swear on it!"
- Dany stopped being awesome after GoT in the books, and she's following that same path on the show. I'm finding the actress more and more annoying as she attempts to seem powerful. Every time someone kicks her down a notch I find myself inwardly cheering.
- I also am kind of WTF over what they're doing with Shae. I hated her in the books and I hate her on the show. She is a vain, selfish creature -- SINCE WHEN is she on anyone's side but her own?! And being all mama bear with Sansa makes NO SENSE. Why would she give a shit about Sansa or what happens to her? Sansa has everything Shae wants! Shae'd probably be happy if terrible things happened to Sansa! Also, threatening the serving girl who was going to tell Cersei about Sansa's period? What good would that have done? Is Shae scarier than Cersei? I THINK NOT. All that girl would have had to do was tell Cersei ANYway, then have Shae killed/punished for trying to keep it from the Queen. Shae would know that, and it's totally out of character for her to risk her own neck to protect Sansa. (BTW, that was the most blood ever for a girl having her period for the first time. O.o I mean, for only a few hours of bleeding.)
akscully points out that most of Sansa's chapters are all internal monologues, so it's good for her to have someone to talk to, but couldn't that person be the Hound??? They ACTUALLY DO TALK in the books! Way more than on the show! (Only recently are they acknowledging that!) Also, I was kind of hoping that when the Hound saw what Sansa and Shae were doing, that he'd wordlessly flip the mattress over for them -- the fact that he apparently went to Cersei about it is ugh, especially because that DOESN'T happen in the books. Why couldn't it have been someone else more obviously on Cersei's side? Why taint the Hound?It's like, they're taking the one story that actually WAS sweet and pure, with the Hound having an unknown good side, and ruining it, while taking other stories and making people good that were previously bad. WTF? STOP IT. YOU ARE MAKING IT NOT AS GOOD!
- A. also reminded me that Xaro Xhoan Daxos is gay in the books. Maybe they just haven't shown us that yet? I'll be annoyed if they change it though -- I mean, there aren't that many homosexual characters in mainstream fiction to begin with, so why change that for no reason??
- Ugh, Theon's continued fall from grace is awful. Those burned bodies were so terrible to see, even more so than in my imagination. I'm not sure what that one dude found in the hay that got Theon to prompt them to take Maester Luwin away? I assume something that sparked the idea for killing those other poor kids (which they have yet to explain, but which almost doesn't matter on the show, given that we know perfectly well Bran and Rickon are safe. NOT the case in the book, wherein we totally think for a few chapters that those burned bodies ARE the boys).
- I am still totally and completely mystified by the nurse chick. IS THAT JEYNE WESTERLING OR NOT??????? Or is that a whole new character who will serve the same purpose Jeyne served in the book? I'm 50/50 on it. On the one hand, it's been implied that she's actually a noblewoman, which would make her more likely to be Jeyne, just with an air of mystery that she didn't have in the book. On the other hand, she does seem to have an accent (or maybe it's just my imagination), and she has more exotic looks, so maybe they are just making her a whole different character. She's definitely been made way more useful than Jeyne was, that's for sure. Jeyne was such a nothing bore of a character, the stereotypical pretty highborn girl who apparently caught Robb's attention because of we-don't-know-why. So in that sense, I would understand why they're trying to make her more interesting/have the audience understand better why Robb would make such a horrible tactical move as to marry her when he's made promises to the Freys.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-14 11:08 pm (UTC)Jon is my favorite too. And my husband, who hasn't read the books, is all "Why do you like Jon so much? He's such a whiny little bitch!" and I'm like YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND JUST READ THE BOOKS. He's thoroughly enjoying Ygritte though and her trolling (perfect word, trolling) of Jon.
I do not understand all this Arya-Tywin stuff. Why are they making Tywin so damn likeable? And Dany is annoying just as much as she was in the books.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-15 12:36 am (UTC)Ughghghghghghgh Jooooooonnnnnnnnnnn. They have done him such a disservice. When Jade was like, "I don't care about Jon" it was totally like daggers in my heart. :))))) BOOK READERS UNDERSTAND. <3
Srsly re: Tywin. I just do not get the reasoning behind that at all. Do ALL the characters need to have good sides underneath it all? Can't some of them just be assholes? What's next, Ramsay Snow actually has a heart of gold?