the car story (so far)
Aug. 12th, 2010 02:24 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sarea
All right, guys. Here's the car story so far. It's not completely resolved, but I'm at an OK place with it right now so I can purge.
So first of all, there's not one, but two, cars involved now. There's the new car I bought recently, the Lexus HS 250h, which I picked up yesterday. I'm currently experiencing new car euphoria. I love it! The backup camera seems like it's a bit skewed, but I'm going to take it in to have them look at it over the weekend or something. Otherwise, it's great. Let's hope that's a minor thing and doesn't turn into a huge production, because I really need to have something go right.
My favorite new feature on the HS: it has a USB port, so I can plug my iPod in and cycle through songs and albums, etc., on my navigation panel. It'll display all the pertinent info for the song, like I'm listening to it on my computer. Wheee! Yeah, it's kinda clunky (I haven't yet figured out a way to fast forward through the alphabetical lists), but still nice. My IS 250 had an auxilary port so I could listen to the iPod through my car speakers, but I couldn't interact with it through the car.
The car is 85% recyclable, which is very cool. I've never had a hybrid before, but so far it seems to drive the same as my IS (though I never really took advantage of the IS's power). Being an anal/competitive sort of person, I now want to eke out the most gas mileage I can out of this thing and see how well I can do. (It's a luxury vehicle though, so it's not like the workhorse Prius, which can get like 50-60 mpg. Average for the HS is about 35 mpg.)
Oh, plus I like using a mouse to interact with the navigation/climate/audio panel rather than touching the screen (as I did on my IS). I don't like fingerprints on screens; it freaks me out when someone comes to my desk and points something out to me on my screen and TOUCHES IT. I'm like, just point, I know what you're pointing at, don't touch the screen! Yeah, bit of OCD going on there.
The only bad thing about this car-buying experience so far (knock on wood) is that I was mistaken about my payment dates, and so essentially, I've paid for an entire month's lease on the IS that isn't even mine anymore. Ughghghgh. Talk about flushing money down the toilet. I could have given it to a homeless man on the street and it wouldn't have been wasted in this fashion.
I'll post pictures soon. :D
But now comes the bad story. As I've said before, I wanted this car purchase to be the last one for a good long while. I hate the car buying process and never want to go through it again, if I can help it (this seems ironic now -- stick with me and you'll see why). That also means that since this is now MY car, and will be my car for a long time, I want to keep it nice.
I often take the bus in to work. I drive 2.5 miles to my nearest commute center (a church parking lot, in my case), park my car, then hop on the bus. I get home the same way. I also drive down the street every day to take my dog to a nearby park. My dog is not nice to car interiors. He gets aggressive when he sees people, and will scratch at the seats/doors. I don't want him to do this to the new car. I also don't want to leave my brand-new car in the church parking lot, exposed to the elements and other employees who park there who deliberately drive their worst cars and probably don't care if they get dinged -- but I do. So I came upon a brilliant idea. I should buy a cheap clunker vehicle that just needs to be reliable enough that I can use it to drive 7 miles a day (to/back from the bus; to/back from the park)!
You can see where this is going.
When I make up my mind to do something, I do it. I don't like to dilly dally. In this case, there was also a timing imperative -- my HS was going to be ready soon, and I wanted to have the second vehicle by the time it was.
I've learned a LOT about buying used cars during this short period of time. I knew next to nothing about it before. So if you're thinking of buying a used car, ask me questions, I probably know the answer! I went through all the usual mistakes before having a grasp of how it should best be done.
My first mistake was that I looked at the Seattle Times classifieds. They don't indicate when the postings were made, so those posts could be super old, or likely that the car listed has been sold, etc. They also have a clunky contact interface. Not ONE person I contacted through them contacted me back. The one person who provided their number on their listing had already sold their vehicle.
Craigslist is a better bet, as is searching for used car dealerships and looking at their inventories, or going to manufacturer websites (like Toyota) and finding local dealerships then looking at their used car inventories. I prefer doing that than going to actual lots to look at their available cars, because it's a huge time saver, you get a sense for which ones you're really interested in, and you can compare the asking prices to Kelley Blue Book values. So, dealers who are on top of their Internet inventory get a big bonus from Internet researchers like me.
Oh, you should know: my budget was around $1,000. I didn't want to spend much more than that on a second vehicle, and in my view, paying $2,000 for a clunker, when I didn't care what it was, as long as it drove, was just paying extra money for what was likely to be no better than a $1,000 clunker.
One listing I saw was for a 199x Camry from a Nissan dealership. Japanese cars on the used market, I've found out, are HUGELY desirable, and for good reason. They're reputed to be more reliable than domestic cars (which they are), and that becomes even more important when you're looking at old cars that have a lot of mileage on them.
ANYWAY, we went to go look at it, and was told by the salesman (who my mom and I both liked) that he had driven it and it was kind of "scary." He then recommended a Mazda that they'd just gotten in, that had just one owner who had all her service records. However, it was 4x more than my budget. I decided to look around some more.
Another promising vehicle was a 1991 Mercedes that had 154,000 miles on it. It was from one of those sketchy used car lots. My mom and I test drove it, and it seemed to run okay, but it was 3x my budget. My mom then said that she thought I should consider the Mazda, because it was worth paying more for the peace of mind.
So the next day, we went BACK to the Nissan dealership to check out that car -- but it had already sold. But you know, the salesman (same one) said, we do have this 2000 Pontiac Sunfire, with 155,000 miles. I've driven it and it drives fine. But it is really dirty because there's dog hair all over the inside. I drove the vehicle from Nissan's used car lot to their main building, a distance of less than half a mile. The engine *sounded* okay. Not perfect, but I figured that was to be expected of a used car, especially at this price point, and plus it was an American car, maybe they just sound like that.
Original price of the vehicle was $1,991, but it was 'on sale' for $1,591. I offered $1,200. They came back with $1,491 -- with taxes and other fees, would come out to $1,891. I was like, no way. I offered $1,250. They accepted. Total price with taxes and other fees was $1,563. My mom said, make it an even $1,500. Which they did. She drove the Pontiac and followed me in my IS home. It was fine.
The next morning, I prepared to take it on its first 2.5 mile commute to the bus area. About a mile in, I felt a slight stutter in the wheel, like I had lost control for a second. That was weird, I thought, maybe I imagined it. But then I noticed that the temperature gauge was climbing steadily, until the reached all the way into the red. Turning on the heater did nothing -- cold air blew out. I'd also lost power steering so it was really hard to steer. I made it to the church parking lot, and when I stopped the vehicle the engine was smoking.
Well, you can imagine how thrilled I was that allllll the stereotypes about used cars breaking down right after they leave the lot came true. I thought, at first, that I was being too cautious about those sorts of things. That couldn't be true of EVERY used car, I told myself. And it probably isn't. But I managed to live the stereotype.
Of course I was incensed. After getting it to an auto body shop, I made calls. I wrote emails. I wrote letters. It didn't matter that I had purchased the car "as is," with no warranty. They must've known the car was in a precarious situation and wasn't driveable and was potentially even dangerous. It wasn't RIGHT. The first call to the dealership yielded nothing. "Oh, it's probably just low on coolant, pour some water in there." And noises about how cheap the car was, it was to be expected it would have problems, etc. I was close to tears. My $1,500 check hadn't even cleared yet. I wasn't even going to get the title for weeks. What an expensive lesson.
The next day, the auto body shop gave me the bad news: $816 to fix it (the serpentine belt, whatever that is, was just GONE, and there were problems w/ the water pump, alternator, and belt tensioner), and that was just for starters, the stuff they knew was wrong. A young guy at the shop offered me $100 for the car and to settle my bill at the mechanic's (about $50). I called a car donation agency. Because I didn't have the title yet, they'd only be able to sell it for parts, and would only be able to give me a maximum value of $500. She said that I should definitely take the offer from the guy to buy it. So basically, my $1,500 car had overnight turned into $150.
I even called the guy to tell him I'd take his offer. I gave up. I didn't want to expend the time, energy, and frustration to pursue this further, or actually open a small claims lawsuit -- I wouldn't even know where to begin.
K. talked to her dad, who is not only a lawyer like my dad, but also used to own a car dealership. He suggested that I send them a letter telling them I intended to file a small claims lawsuit against them. Even if I didn't have a leg to stand on legally, beause I signed the papers saying that I accepted the car as is, with no warranties, etc., they would have to show up in court, take the time to deal with it, etc., all of which would take more time and money than working something out with me.
Instead of writing them a letter -- which would take too long to resolve things, considering the shop wasn't going to want my useless car sitting on their lot for days -- I called them. I ended up speaking with the used car sales director, who had been the one to make me the deal in the first place (through the salesman). He was one of those aggressive, unpleasant types, who have a chip on their shoulder and was basically a huge asshole. He'd taken exception to the things I'd written (I can't remember now, but I think "reprehensible business practices" was one of the phrases). However, he did want to 'help me out.' He refused to refund any money. He said that if I could bring the car in, that we could split the cost of the repair. Of course, I did not want to put any more money into this car, and I also told him that the car was undriveable so it was out of the question for me to bring it to him. He then offered a $1,500 credit toward another vehicle, and he would take care of towing the Pontiac back, which everyone I talked to encouraged me to take. Because the alternative, of course, was $150.
The idea of dealing with them again, and possibly giving them even more of my money, put a bad taste in my mouth. But I accepted.
D. (K.'s husband) came with me to the dealership. We had looked online and there was nothing in their inventory that would work for me, so we asked if I could get a voucher, to use later. Emphatic no. We were told that he never gives money back, that he doesn't even give credit back, and that he was only doing this as a favor. We were told that I would have that day and the next to pick out another car. He wouldn't even let me have over the weekend. If D. hadn't been there I might have actually cried. Or started screaming at them. D. said that MY presence is what kept HIM calm, or else they would have had to escort them out. They were just so awful. But finally, Joe (the used car sales director) offered to repair the vehicle. He said that he would take care of towing it to the location, repairing it, AND if I sent him the invoice from the mechanic, reimburse me for the amount it took to release the car (~$50). He also said that if he was unable to repair the car, that he would return my $1,500. Well, all this was verbal, of course, but he seemed sincere, and what choice did I have really?
D. thought this was a good resolution. It would give me the working car I wanted and paid for, without forking over any additional cash. I, of course, am not thrilled with the idea of driving a car that is so iffy. When I told the auto body guys that the dealership was going to fix the car, they were like, shocked. Why would they spend that kind of time/money on a car like this?
I was half afraid that I'd never hear from Joe again. But yesterday I faxed over the invoice and the location of the car, and he called to say that he'd received it. This morning I spoke with him again, and he said that the parts had been ordered and he hoped to have the car ready by tomorrow. Which, I must say, is much quicker than I would have anticipated.
Now, however, I fear the result. What do Nissan service guys know about Pontiacs? Is it actually going to be driveable, or is it just going to break down again after 20 miles? And my paranoia extends even further than that -- what if this guy now has it out for me, and it goes up in a giant explosion of flames on the street, with me in it?
A coworker of mine suggests trading it in for another vehicle as soon as I get the title, or selling it privately (while disclosing the fact that I cannot guarantee its reliability at all -- so really, it would only be for someone who knows cars well to fix up).
SIGH. It's been so incredibly stressful. And I have no one to blame but myself. Also, I have the worst luck EVER.
Of all the lessons I've learned during this experience, this is the biggest one: when buying a used car, take it to a mechanic before buying. They can usually do a flat-fee inspection and tell you if you should buy it or not, or at least what might be wrong or go wrong in the near future.
Edit: The complete list of things I've learned
1) When buying used, have the car checked out by a reputable mechanic. They will usually have a flat fee for this kind of service. They should be able to tell you if the car is on its last legs or generally how much life it has left in it, or how much you might have to invest to keep it working for xx years. Most people -- even private sellers -- will be okay with you doing this. And if they're not okay with it, that's your first clue.
2) If you're buying a used vehicle for your primary vehicle, meaning it's the only form of transportation you have to rely on, get a CPO (certified pre-owned) vehicle. These are cars that have been inspected and guaranteed by the manufacturer, and will come with some kind of warranty. They do tend to be newer cars (5 years old or less), though, because of course the older they get, the less reliable they are, and the less the manufacturer will stick their neck out.
3) Ask about service records and previous owners. The more documentation the better. The fewer the number of previous owners, the better.
4) Check Kelley Blue Book for the value of the vehicle with its specs, model year, and mileage. For non-CPO vehicles, I'd probably use the "private party" price, in fair or good condition. Never suggested retail price if it's being sold by a private party or is non-CPO from a lot.
5) To save time/effort and to get the best sense for the kind of car you can get with your budget, look online. Go to dealer websites, Craigslist, or cars.com. If your local paper has a good classifieds section (mine doesn't), that could be an option too.
6) Buying from a big, reputable dealership means nothing if there's no warranty on the car to back it up. It's the same as buying from a used car lot or from a private party. In fact, from what I've seen, buying from a private party may be more trustworthy, depending. The only thing about buying from a private party is having to go through all the title and tax crap yourself, rather than having it done all in a quick and efficient way.
So first of all, there's not one, but two, cars involved now. There's the new car I bought recently, the Lexus HS 250h, which I picked up yesterday. I'm currently experiencing new car euphoria. I love it! The backup camera seems like it's a bit skewed, but I'm going to take it in to have them look at it over the weekend or something. Otherwise, it's great. Let's hope that's a minor thing and doesn't turn into a huge production, because I really need to have something go right.
My favorite new feature on the HS: it has a USB port, so I can plug my iPod in and cycle through songs and albums, etc., on my navigation panel. It'll display all the pertinent info for the song, like I'm listening to it on my computer. Wheee! Yeah, it's kinda clunky (I haven't yet figured out a way to fast forward through the alphabetical lists), but still nice. My IS 250 had an auxilary port so I could listen to the iPod through my car speakers, but I couldn't interact with it through the car.
The car is 85% recyclable, which is very cool. I've never had a hybrid before, but so far it seems to drive the same as my IS (though I never really took advantage of the IS's power). Being an anal/competitive sort of person, I now want to eke out the most gas mileage I can out of this thing and see how well I can do. (It's a luxury vehicle though, so it's not like the workhorse Prius, which can get like 50-60 mpg. Average for the HS is about 35 mpg.)
Oh, plus I like using a mouse to interact with the navigation/climate/audio panel rather than touching the screen (as I did on my IS). I don't like fingerprints on screens; it freaks me out when someone comes to my desk and points something out to me on my screen and TOUCHES IT. I'm like, just point, I know what you're pointing at, don't touch the screen! Yeah, bit of OCD going on there.
The only bad thing about this car-buying experience so far (knock on wood) is that I was mistaken about my payment dates, and so essentially, I've paid for an entire month's lease on the IS that isn't even mine anymore. Ughghghgh. Talk about flushing money down the toilet. I could have given it to a homeless man on the street and it wouldn't have been wasted in this fashion.
I'll post pictures soon. :D
But now comes the bad story. As I've said before, I wanted this car purchase to be the last one for a good long while. I hate the car buying process and never want to go through it again, if I can help it (this seems ironic now -- stick with me and you'll see why). That also means that since this is now MY car, and will be my car for a long time, I want to keep it nice.
I often take the bus in to work. I drive 2.5 miles to my nearest commute center (a church parking lot, in my case), park my car, then hop on the bus. I get home the same way. I also drive down the street every day to take my dog to a nearby park. My dog is not nice to car interiors. He gets aggressive when he sees people, and will scratch at the seats/doors. I don't want him to do this to the new car. I also don't want to leave my brand-new car in the church parking lot, exposed to the elements and other employees who park there who deliberately drive their worst cars and probably don't care if they get dinged -- but I do. So I came upon a brilliant idea. I should buy a cheap clunker vehicle that just needs to be reliable enough that I can use it to drive 7 miles a day (to/back from the bus; to/back from the park)!
You can see where this is going.
When I make up my mind to do something, I do it. I don't like to dilly dally. In this case, there was also a timing imperative -- my HS was going to be ready soon, and I wanted to have the second vehicle by the time it was.
I've learned a LOT about buying used cars during this short period of time. I knew next to nothing about it before. So if you're thinking of buying a used car, ask me questions, I probably know the answer! I went through all the usual mistakes before having a grasp of how it should best be done.
My first mistake was that I looked at the Seattle Times classifieds. They don't indicate when the postings were made, so those posts could be super old, or likely that the car listed has been sold, etc. They also have a clunky contact interface. Not ONE person I contacted through them contacted me back. The one person who provided their number on their listing had already sold their vehicle.
Craigslist is a better bet, as is searching for used car dealerships and looking at their inventories, or going to manufacturer websites (like Toyota) and finding local dealerships then looking at their used car inventories. I prefer doing that than going to actual lots to look at their available cars, because it's a huge time saver, you get a sense for which ones you're really interested in, and you can compare the asking prices to Kelley Blue Book values. So, dealers who are on top of their Internet inventory get a big bonus from Internet researchers like me.
Oh, you should know: my budget was around $1,000. I didn't want to spend much more than that on a second vehicle, and in my view, paying $2,000 for a clunker, when I didn't care what it was, as long as it drove, was just paying extra money for what was likely to be no better than a $1,000 clunker.
One listing I saw was for a 199x Camry from a Nissan dealership. Japanese cars on the used market, I've found out, are HUGELY desirable, and for good reason. They're reputed to be more reliable than domestic cars (which they are), and that becomes even more important when you're looking at old cars that have a lot of mileage on them.
ANYWAY, we went to go look at it, and was told by the salesman (who my mom and I both liked) that he had driven it and it was kind of "scary." He then recommended a Mazda that they'd just gotten in, that had just one owner who had all her service records. However, it was 4x more than my budget. I decided to look around some more.
Another promising vehicle was a 1991 Mercedes that had 154,000 miles on it. It was from one of those sketchy used car lots. My mom and I test drove it, and it seemed to run okay, but it was 3x my budget. My mom then said that she thought I should consider the Mazda, because it was worth paying more for the peace of mind.
So the next day, we went BACK to the Nissan dealership to check out that car -- but it had already sold. But you know, the salesman (same one) said, we do have this 2000 Pontiac Sunfire, with 155,000 miles. I've driven it and it drives fine. But it is really dirty because there's dog hair all over the inside. I drove the vehicle from Nissan's used car lot to their main building, a distance of less than half a mile. The engine *sounded* okay. Not perfect, but I figured that was to be expected of a used car, especially at this price point, and plus it was an American car, maybe they just sound like that.
Original price of the vehicle was $1,991, but it was 'on sale' for $1,591. I offered $1,200. They came back with $1,491 -- with taxes and other fees, would come out to $1,891. I was like, no way. I offered $1,250. They accepted. Total price with taxes and other fees was $1,563. My mom said, make it an even $1,500. Which they did. She drove the Pontiac and followed me in my IS home. It was fine.
The next morning, I prepared to take it on its first 2.5 mile commute to the bus area. About a mile in, I felt a slight stutter in the wheel, like I had lost control for a second. That was weird, I thought, maybe I imagined it. But then I noticed that the temperature gauge was climbing steadily, until the reached all the way into the red. Turning on the heater did nothing -- cold air blew out. I'd also lost power steering so it was really hard to steer. I made it to the church parking lot, and when I stopped the vehicle the engine was smoking.
Well, you can imagine how thrilled I was that allllll the stereotypes about used cars breaking down right after they leave the lot came true. I thought, at first, that I was being too cautious about those sorts of things. That couldn't be true of EVERY used car, I told myself. And it probably isn't. But I managed to live the stereotype.
Of course I was incensed. After getting it to an auto body shop, I made calls. I wrote emails. I wrote letters. It didn't matter that I had purchased the car "as is," with no warranty. They must've known the car was in a precarious situation and wasn't driveable and was potentially even dangerous. It wasn't RIGHT. The first call to the dealership yielded nothing. "Oh, it's probably just low on coolant, pour some water in there." And noises about how cheap the car was, it was to be expected it would have problems, etc. I was close to tears. My $1,500 check hadn't even cleared yet. I wasn't even going to get the title for weeks. What an expensive lesson.
The next day, the auto body shop gave me the bad news: $816 to fix it (the serpentine belt, whatever that is, was just GONE, and there were problems w/ the water pump, alternator, and belt tensioner), and that was just for starters, the stuff they knew was wrong. A young guy at the shop offered me $100 for the car and to settle my bill at the mechanic's (about $50). I called a car donation agency. Because I didn't have the title yet, they'd only be able to sell it for parts, and would only be able to give me a maximum value of $500. She said that I should definitely take the offer from the guy to buy it. So basically, my $1,500 car had overnight turned into $150.
I even called the guy to tell him I'd take his offer. I gave up. I didn't want to expend the time, energy, and frustration to pursue this further, or actually open a small claims lawsuit -- I wouldn't even know where to begin.
K. talked to her dad, who is not only a lawyer like my dad, but also used to own a car dealership. He suggested that I send them a letter telling them I intended to file a small claims lawsuit against them. Even if I didn't have a leg to stand on legally, beause I signed the papers saying that I accepted the car as is, with no warranties, etc., they would have to show up in court, take the time to deal with it, etc., all of which would take more time and money than working something out with me.
Instead of writing them a letter -- which would take too long to resolve things, considering the shop wasn't going to want my useless car sitting on their lot for days -- I called them. I ended up speaking with the used car sales director, who had been the one to make me the deal in the first place (through the salesman). He was one of those aggressive, unpleasant types, who have a chip on their shoulder and was basically a huge asshole. He'd taken exception to the things I'd written (I can't remember now, but I think "reprehensible business practices" was one of the phrases). However, he did want to 'help me out.' He refused to refund any money. He said that if I could bring the car in, that we could split the cost of the repair. Of course, I did not want to put any more money into this car, and I also told him that the car was undriveable so it was out of the question for me to bring it to him. He then offered a $1,500 credit toward another vehicle, and he would take care of towing the Pontiac back, which everyone I talked to encouraged me to take. Because the alternative, of course, was $150.
The idea of dealing with them again, and possibly giving them even more of my money, put a bad taste in my mouth. But I accepted.
D. (K.'s husband) came with me to the dealership. We had looked online and there was nothing in their inventory that would work for me, so we asked if I could get a voucher, to use later. Emphatic no. We were told that he never gives money back, that he doesn't even give credit back, and that he was only doing this as a favor. We were told that I would have that day and the next to pick out another car. He wouldn't even let me have over the weekend. If D. hadn't been there I might have actually cried. Or started screaming at them. D. said that MY presence is what kept HIM calm, or else they would have had to escort them out. They were just so awful. But finally, Joe (the used car sales director) offered to repair the vehicle. He said that he would take care of towing it to the location, repairing it, AND if I sent him the invoice from the mechanic, reimburse me for the amount it took to release the car (~$50). He also said that if he was unable to repair the car, that he would return my $1,500. Well, all this was verbal, of course, but he seemed sincere, and what choice did I have really?
D. thought this was a good resolution. It would give me the working car I wanted and paid for, without forking over any additional cash. I, of course, am not thrilled with the idea of driving a car that is so iffy. When I told the auto body guys that the dealership was going to fix the car, they were like, shocked. Why would they spend that kind of time/money on a car like this?
I was half afraid that I'd never hear from Joe again. But yesterday I faxed over the invoice and the location of the car, and he called to say that he'd received it. This morning I spoke with him again, and he said that the parts had been ordered and he hoped to have the car ready by tomorrow. Which, I must say, is much quicker than I would have anticipated.
Now, however, I fear the result. What do Nissan service guys know about Pontiacs? Is it actually going to be driveable, or is it just going to break down again after 20 miles? And my paranoia extends even further than that -- what if this guy now has it out for me, and it goes up in a giant explosion of flames on the street, with me in it?
A coworker of mine suggests trading it in for another vehicle as soon as I get the title, or selling it privately (while disclosing the fact that I cannot guarantee its reliability at all -- so really, it would only be for someone who knows cars well to fix up).
SIGH. It's been so incredibly stressful. And I have no one to blame but myself. Also, I have the worst luck EVER.
Of all the lessons I've learned during this experience, this is the biggest one: when buying a used car, take it to a mechanic before buying. They can usually do a flat-fee inspection and tell you if you should buy it or not, or at least what might be wrong or go wrong in the near future.
Edit: The complete list of things I've learned
1) When buying used, have the car checked out by a reputable mechanic. They will usually have a flat fee for this kind of service. They should be able to tell you if the car is on its last legs or generally how much life it has left in it, or how much you might have to invest to keep it working for xx years. Most people -- even private sellers -- will be okay with you doing this. And if they're not okay with it, that's your first clue.
2) If you're buying a used vehicle for your primary vehicle, meaning it's the only form of transportation you have to rely on, get a CPO (certified pre-owned) vehicle. These are cars that have been inspected and guaranteed by the manufacturer, and will come with some kind of warranty. They do tend to be newer cars (5 years old or less), though, because of course the older they get, the less reliable they are, and the less the manufacturer will stick their neck out.
3) Ask about service records and previous owners. The more documentation the better. The fewer the number of previous owners, the better.
4) Check Kelley Blue Book for the value of the vehicle with its specs, model year, and mileage. For non-CPO vehicles, I'd probably use the "private party" price, in fair or good condition. Never suggested retail price if it's being sold by a private party or is non-CPO from a lot.
5) To save time/effort and to get the best sense for the kind of car you can get with your budget, look online. Go to dealer websites, Craigslist, or cars.com. If your local paper has a good classifieds section (mine doesn't), that could be an option too.
6) Buying from a big, reputable dealership means nothing if there's no warranty on the car to back it up. It's the same as buying from a used car lot or from a private party. In fact, from what I've seen, buying from a private party may be more trustworthy, depending. The only thing about buying from a private party is having to go through all the title and tax crap yourself, rather than having it done all in a quick and efficient way.
