If wishes were horses...

[sarea]

You know what D/G needs? Its own site, where writers can register and post their D/G-oriented fic. All ratings would be accepted. The rules would be, "D/G, and whatever the hell other ships you want." Portkey and Checkmated are both fine sites, but they're H/Hr and R/Hr oriented, which means that a D/G writer is in this awkward position of having two places to archive his/her fic, depending on what the subpairings in the story are. This also means that sometimes, story direction gets decided by where the story can get posted, which is not the ideal way to plan a story -- and yet, who can blame a writer for doing so?

After corresponding with the lovely bunny_wabit, I now know for sure that you can't "break" the H/Hr ship on Portkey regardless of which ship pairing you're placing the story under. And because it's an H/Hr-focused site, the reverse isn't true for the others (you can post H/Hr stories that break the other ships). That is completely the prerogative of the site's maintainers, and I respect that. Sure, it bothers me a little, but the main issue is that that means, even though Portkey is a D/G-friendly site, I can't post the whole spectrum of what I might write wrt D/G. I can only post D/G + H/Hr or D/G + no Harry romance + no Hermione romance fics. That is way limiting for me. From what I can tell of the rules at Checkmated, it's the exact same kind of limitation, only w/ R/Hr instead of H/Hr. And in fact, I'm not even allowed the option of D/G without R/Hr, which at least at Portkey would be acceptable (meaning D/G only).

I'm just throwing this out there, mainly to vent, and maybe with the hopes that someone who can actually do something about it will hear my plea. I don't have the expertise, personality, or resources to create/maintain such a site, but something like that would rock my socks off.

Comments

[fearthainn.livejournal.com]

Ok, LJ just ate my post and now I have to retype it. Unimpressed, LJ, unimpressed!

Magical Theory makes no restrictions on accompanying ships, so long as D/G is the focus of the story. The only caveat is that because it's hosted on Yahoo we can't allow NC-17 rated stories, what with their TOS and all. (It's also not automated, which means that updates come when the archive team (which right now is basically me and Emily) gets around to it. Which hasn't happened in a while, what with our general unwillingness to tackle the slush pile. Not to mention I'm lazy, and it's far too easy to talk Emily out of doing it. Hee.)

It would be nice to have an automated archive for D/G (less work for me!) but time and money are the main factors there, I think.

[fearthainn.livejournal.com]

I was also going to add, the main reason I archive in only three places - my personal site, FF.net and MT when I get around to getting my own stories up there...you'd think being an admin would mean I'd give myself posting privilages, but I'm just as lazy about my own stories as I am about everyone else's - is that this way I don't have to worry about restrictions enforced by other archives.

And certainly part of this is laziness on my part. For example, I was invited to archive at the new Draco-oriented archive, Unredeemed.net, but I probably won't submit anything new to them because they require their authors to have an archive-assigned beta, whcih is a restriction I don't care for. I have four betas already and no desire to post on a site that would require me to pick up a fifth for no reason other than to post on their site. It's much easier to simply not post there. I could probably post on Checkmated, but again with the laziness...I don't know if my stories would meet their guidelines, and I'm not overly interested in finding out. I find that if an archive has too many restrictions I just won't bother. I'm pretty happy with the niche I already have. :)

[ceilidh]

I totally agree, and I don't even write D/G fic. You know how much I wish there was an archive that hosted *GOOD* fics of all ratings and ships. With the standards of say, SugarQuill without the pairing restrictions. I can post at FA and RS.org and that's it, man. I can't post most of my stuff at Portkey because it has *gasp*! R/Hr on the side! :O! and I won't even attempt to post my R/Hr stuff at SugarQuill on principle. I do have one R/Hr fic at Checkmated, though. You should be able to write the story you want to write and not think 'okay, if this happens, I can't post it in such and such a place' because that shouldn't dictate your writing, you know?

I started working as an uploader for Fiction Alley, and omg it is more work than I ever figured. Way back when I was innocent I wanted to open my own archive, but omg. Omg, omg, omg. So much work. And a lot of FA's is automated. It's just When Things Go Wrong that it takes an incredible amount of work.

*sigh*

[rainpuddle13.livejournal.com]

*sigh* I'm going to have to stop posting TW after a while on Portkey because, while I have H/Hr, there will be no R/L in my fic - Luna doesn't even show up. I have other plans for Ronald. Gah! That is so frustrating. I think you should be able to break sub-ships if the main focus is H/Hr, R/L or D/G. If not you'll end up with a bunch of fics with the same old crap. I hate being pigeoned holed like that.

Unfortunately, it still looks like ff.net and fa.org are best bets and natually, neither accepts NC-17 material...

GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sydney-lynne.livejournal.com]

I totally agree that D/G needs its own self-uploading archive. The limiting resources in this situation are: a) money to host an archive that can be large (for both fics and art) and not rating-restricted, and b) someone (or multiple someones) who can code self-uploading archives. I HATE submitting to anyone who has to pre-approve my writing because it's slow and annoying (it took like two months for RS to approve my fic), which is why I have no fics at FA, even though I could probably pull them off my LJ and submit them to AT after some proof-reading. I actually like the portkey system where you send them a writing sample to prove you're sufficently responsible not to post utter garbage and then you can upload yourself. But yes, in summary, you are so right, as usual.

[sarea-okelani.livejournal.com]

Actually, that's part of my rant -- what you're talking about? That's totally fine. At Portkey, ONLY H/Hr cannot be broken. You can break up D/G or R/L as you wish, as long as the story isn't placed under that category. So since TW is a D/G story, it doesn't have to be R/L. (However, if you have Harry or Hermione romantically involved w/ anyone, it has to be w/ each other.) Make sense? Well, in a general way, at least? <g>

[irisanderson.livejournal.com]

Oh I agree, I just wrote my first D/F fics las week and I am a member of Checkmated I looked it up and there are ony four D/G fics. I am going to submit them to thr restricted section but ( do wish there was a site devoted to D/G.

It's funny cause I am an H/G-er. lol

[sarea-okelani.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Part of my rant is because it's so frustrating to have to post in multiple locations, because one story doesn't fit one particular archive's restrictions. I am really lazy, and I would LOVE for there to be just ONE PLACE that I could go to post my stories. Or two places. Two would be tolerable. Now, however, it's this crazy system of, "Well does this story belong there, or not?"

And yes, unfortunately, the NC-17 thing is a big deal for me. Sex plays a role in many of my stories -- whether because it's a smutlet, or because it's a natural part of a longer story -- and I'd love for there to be a place where restrictions wrt ratings do not exist. Otherwise I'm having to create NC-17 and non-NC-17 versions, and that's just even more work for me to do, and I'm lazy enough as it is. <g> And not only that -- again, I don't want to decide on what goes into a story on the basis of whether or not the archive I want to submit to will take it. I want to be able to just write a story, however it might turn out to be, and know that I can post it. Period.

[sarea-okelani.livejournal.com]

You're an H/G-er, really? And now you've been dabbling in D/G? Are you being lured to the dark side? :D It's lovely over here...

[irisanderson.livejournal.com]

I am indeen dabbling. I found a site I just clicked on it so I am not sure what it want as far as shipping.

http://enemy.king-weasley.net/index.php?x=fanfic.html

[sarea-okelani.livejournal.com]

Yeah, basically I'd like for there to be a D/G-centric Portkey. Only w/o any other ship restrictions.

*wistful sigh*

[sarea-okelani.livejournal.com]

OMG you mean the Ultimate Recommendations Site that we dreamed about so long ago? That would still rock my world, but in a totally different way. That one would have to be updated using manpower, whereas for this, I'd love an automatic archive-type thing. Even FA has to go through a person, whereas Portkey and Checkmated, you just sub your story and it's done. Harder to maintain story quality that way, but I think that's an evil I'd accept (just avoid the bad ones).

FA and RS.org is a good pairing of sites, though -- whatever you can't post at FA, you can post at RS.org. But I would dearly love for there to be a SINGLE place where I could post everything, regardless of rating. FA won't take NC-17, and RS.org won't take anything not NC-17 (or R, iirc). But this is kind of a tangent from my original rant, which was a plea for a place just for my ship, because every other ship has an automated archive and I want one too. ; )

You are brave and wonderful for taking on FA duties -- as is everyone who works there. I am so bad at managing my time that I know if I were to try it, no one would hear hide nor hair from me again.

[ceilidh]

Hee. Don't feel bad. Trio fic doesn't have an automated archive - or any archive, for that matter - other than a yahoogroup! Not one I know of anyway. Woe.

[fearthainn.livejournal.com]

I think MT would accept NC-17 ratings if our hosting would allow us to - I know we used to have them, but Yahoo cracked down on adult sites and Emily took them down so she wouldn't end up losing her site entirely. And that's another roadblock to setting up such a site...ISPs that will allow hosting of adult content, be they stories or pics or what-have-you, are hard to find. I know my host has a clause that doesn't allow for adult content, so I don't post NC-17 fic to my personal site. Which, as you said, changes what and how I write, as well as affecting where I post things and who my audience is. I don't write a lot of adult fic, but I don't really have a place to put it even if I did...I don't think I'd want to post it on my own site , just because dude. My grandmother reads my website! I don't want my grandma reading my smut!

[sydney-lynne.livejournal.com]

*bemoans our lack of representation in the (rich and/or powerful) higher ups of fandom hierarchy* Think if we had a better archive system that the D/G ship would get a little more respect? Portkey is actually the only archive I still go to anymore because I'm so disgruntled with the others, but D/G just doesn't get the same respect as H/Hr there. Woe.

[mynuet.livejournal.com]

You know, Kirixchi's got a self-uploading site going, so we know someone with the know-how. I could do it on grey-space, but only on a limited basis, since I've only got a finite amount of space. Still, the only limitation is money to pay for the hosting.

[sarea-okelani.livejournal.com]

Hee, yeah, don't blame ya.

There are so many Web hosts and all that I can barely keep track of them. However, I don't blame anyone for adhering to their provider's policies ... it's just frustrating that they exist. Especially because in XF, this was rarely a problem -- and there was a lot of adult content (because the stories were written for an adult audience, which is who most of us target, imho). I don't know if people simply had their own servers, or if the providers were willing to look the other way because XF, unlike HP, does not have the stigma of being oriented toward children, or if we all just thought that the risks were worth it -- i.e., I have a backup of all my pages, so if they shut me down, I'll just move elsewhere. Whatever it was, it was just not. a big. deal.

I think most ISPs look the other way unless someone raises a stink about it. The TOS of the host for mine and Jade's site is a bit gray about sexual content. I figure this means we'll post what we think falls within the TOS, and if they disagree, then we'll take it down or move elsewhere. And this is a service we're paying for. Even during the years when we used free Web hosting (like Angelfire or Geocities or Tripod or what have you), it was extremely rare that we heard of a case of someone having to take their site down. My XF fic has been on Angelfire for years and years -- still is -- and it's never been an issue.

So either HP people are just really conscientious, or hosts are much more stringent w/ this fandom, or ... I don't even know what. Some combination of the two. <g>

[sarea-okelani.livejournal.com]

I have an extra computer that's not being used. Not too long ago, I had great hopes that I would be able to use it as a server (this was when I was looking for Web hosts). However, due to stupid Verizon and their non-static IP assigning, I can't use it as a server.

Still, even if we could do all this, I'm not sure I really want to. I meant it when I said I didn't have the personality for this kind of thing -- maintaining a site like that would probably totally stress me out, as I would have no time to write and I'd probably start hating people, in general. "People" as a collective are already on thin ice with me, so I don't think I want to risk it. <g> And that's without the expense concerns. I guess I just figure that H/Hr and R/Hr are so beloved that some fans started Portkey and Checkmated; surely that exists for D/G? Though, given the lack of a site until now, I guess not. Sigh.

[mynuet.livejournal.com]

Heh. Well, thus far I have never had problems running a site or dealing with people in this sense, simply because I take on the mindset of an empress. And if it was self-uploading, the actual maintenance wouldn't take all that long, especially if the job was shared by more than on person.

I think I may start thinking about this seriously. It'd be nowhere near the size of PK or CM at first, if ever, but it'd be something. Let me check how much space I'm allowed to use up at grey-space... If the graphics are kept to a minimum, probably a lot of text files could be fit there...

*clears throat nervously*

[kaz814.livejournal.com]

Can I offer my site House Rivalry (http://hr.nearheralways.com) as a possible solution? HR takes any Ginny/Slytherins fic, and even if she doesn't end up with a Slyth in the end, as long as she's with one somewhere along the line, it's accepted. HR is an auto archive (though mod approval is required for the first three submissions to keep grammar/punctuation/spelling standards up) and has beta readers and (soon) tips on writing in general and writing Ginny pairings in particular. We have some G/D fic, though the archive is fairly new, but it's growing.

That said, anyone want to write a How to Write Ginny/Draco Fic essay for the site?

Re: *clears throat nervously*

[sarea-okelani.livejournal.com]

It's definitely a step in the right direction, thanks for linking us. And I really like the idea of mod approval for initial submissions as a quality check.

Still, in my heart of hearts, what I long for is a pure D/G auto-archive. I think it deserves it! :D

[gianfared.livejournal.com]

*waves hello* Hi, I saw mynuet mention this on her lj. I must say that I agree. I love reading the D/G fics, too and it's so hard to find them at places like FFnet, FA and CM since they aren't the main focus. Portkey has their color coding, but then it has its own issues.

Anyway, I see kaz814 posted about her site House Rivalry (http://hr.nearheralways.com/) which is a pretty new archive, but it's thriving. It is Ginny centric, but the fact that it is doesn't limit you as an author to other ships and is NC-17 friendly, plus it is auto-archive, and the betas aren't mandatory--just there if you need one, gives you an immediate answer to the question at hand. Yes, this site isn't D/G specific, but that is one of the categories and it IS the most popular. It's a nice community and worth checking out, in my wee opinion. :o)

Re: *clears throat nervously*

[gianfared.livejournal.com]

Oh, well, I was posting my comment and fighting with evil Lj when you posted this. *sigh*

That was a sweet answer. If you don't get your D/G auto-archive, do consider the lovely community at HR.

[sarea-okelani.livejournal.com]

Hi! Yes ... really, the only true reason to have a D/G-centric archive is to be able to find D/G-specific fic quickly and easily ... otherwise, you could go to a number of sites and look for it. It'd be lovely to have a "home" the way these other ships do.

I've already told Kaz this, but what the heck, I like hearing myself talk ... while I think HR is great and definitely a step in the right direction, what I'd really like to see is something just for D/G, because it's my little OTP and I loff it. <g>

Okay, and I've just seen in my mailbox that you saw my answer to Kaz, but I'm posting this anyway, because I wrote it, goddammit. <g>

[gianfared.livejournal.com]

*snort* Amen, sister! You go to all the trouble to write the damn response, you should post it! LOL

I'll have you know that I adore your OTP and share your taste. I mean really, is there any other? *sigh* I just requested a SMUTASTIC D/G fic as my reward for my shared win of The Squick Fic from Hell Challenge. What else could a girl want but the goodness that is D/G? ;o)

[lissannej.livejournal.com]

I would totally love such a site. It would be nice to have somewhere to house everything -- where on earth can I stick "Palette"??? lol.

As for one site for everything... well, let's just say I've been looking into it. I'm friends with a web designer who works for a huge publishing company out here and we've been discussing it.

[fearthainn.livejournal.com]

There's at least one automated archive script that is used a fair bit in other fandoms. I think RS.org uses something similar, but the one I'm thinking of is used by the Smallville Slash Archive (I think) and a couple of Due South archives as well. It's a self-uploading thing, as well as creating text files...whoever is uploading has to format in a specific way to get their HTML, but that's not really a big deal. I'll have to look ad see if I can find more info when I get home. :)

[mynuet.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a plan. This weekend I'll poke around and see what I can see about how to set this sort of thing up, and then we just may be open for business.

[fearthainn.livejournal.com]

Personally I think the strange moral attitude behind adult HP fic is because it's a children's book. (Won't somebody please think of the children!?) Obviously there are hosting sites out there for whom it is not a big deal, but the decision behind taking NC-17 fic down off the MT archive was because at the time Yahoo WAS cracking down and TOS-ing anyone and everyone in sight. A number of people lost their geocities websites because of adult content, and MT decided, better safe than sorry.

I can understand the reasoning behind most hosting providers not allowing adult content - it's mostly geared to preventing people setting up porn sites on their servers, which cause a HUGE amount of traffic and spam and general hassle. But that means that mild-mannered writers of erotica get the shaft. I mean, I could probably get away posting high-rated stuff anyway, but it's not worth it to me. I know my web-host and she's a great gal, and I'd rather not be a headache for her. (Ironically, all the NC-17 fic I've ever written is only archived at my Yahoo group. Hee.)