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sarea
The Work In Progress: Art form or a curse? In some fandoms, WIPs are a rarity. People finish stories -- yes, even novel-length fiction -- before posting. In the HP fandom, this is not the case. It's typical practice to post a story as a WIP, no matter if it's a novel or if it's more of a long story. Some people even post stories before they've formed a plot or know where the story's going.
Which do you prefer? The satisfaction of a completed story, or the thrill of a work in progress? Do you find waiting for each new installment part of the enjoyment of the reading process, or do you find it frustrating?
If you had to choose one form, what preference would you indicate to your favorite writers?
From the responses we got, people seemed to strongly prefer completed stories. I'm not really surprised by that, but I have to say I am surprised by the vehemence with which this preference was given. I think I thought that, since that's just the way it's done in HPdom, everyone was used to it and maybe even liked it. What encouraged this belief is that I very rarely see reviews for one-shot stories exceed those that have multiple chapters. So in a way, writers are trained to write in a series of parts, because they'd like to hear back from their readers and that seems to be the most effective way to do that.
As Ang pointed out, some writers seem to write *only* for reviews, and even hold fic "hostage" until they get a certain number. I have to say that I generally loathe such practices and it actually says quite a lot about the writer and likely, the quality of their writing. I've never seen a genuinely good writer ever make such demands ... and I think that's partly because true writers write for themselves, not for a public.
That being said, however, writers have fragile egos, and they *do* like for people to read their work. They like hearing praise, of course, and most welcome constructive criticism. But most of all, writers like to know that their work is being *read*. It's difficult to get motivation from time to time to write a really long story without having anyone but yourself to tell you to go on. You don't want to "waste your time" on something that isn't any good, and hearing even one person say, "Hey -- that's not bad, I'd like to know what happens next" can be highly inspirational. As Mandy said, she starts to question herself after she's written a couple of chapters. In that case, I would suggest a beta reader, or several beta readers, who can help with direction and characterization, along with grammar/spelling/punctuation. That might help dull that need for immediate feedback.
But I think the point of the topic was to kind of explore the WIP dynamic within the HPdom. Clearly, most of us would prefer to read completed stories (and even those who don't mind WIPs probably wouldn't *mind* completed stories) -- so why do writers post WIPs? Nearly every story out there is a work in progress, and those that are complete were once WIPs as well. There is very little to recommend writing a WIP: 1) harder to plot; 2) harder to write; 3) possibility of having to go back and revise; 4) people chasing you down for the next part (which is both a positive and a negative, imho). So why do writers do it?
Some reasons have been given already, but I think the primary motivation is that of feedback. The truth is, this fandom is so used to the WIP that when they see a story with one chapter, they either don't bother to read it, thinking that there has to be more, and they'll read it when/if the writer shows that s/he is serious about committing to it and completing it; OR they think there's going to be more, and decide they'll review when it's "really over." I can't tell you how many people have told me that they're looking forward to getting a new installment of "Atypical Lesson" or "When I'm Here" -- both of which are stand-alone stories. I make it clear that the stories are complete, and yet I still get those comments, and there are probably people out there who think that there's going to be more.
Most likely, there's not. I've also noticed that this fandom clamors for a very tied-up ending, wherein all the loose strings are tied and all the characters live happily-ever-after type lives. We're not big on the telling of a story just to tell a story, that perhaps the vignette or the unresolved short story has merit *just as they are*. All of this contributes to the lack, I think, of writers attempting to write stories they can finish in just a few parts. Which is a shame, because the vignette is one of the most difficult and effective ways to tell a story, if done right. (As an example, I give you "Far-Off Fields" by Fearthainn.)
I completely agree with Kimberly, who sums up what she sees as the problems with HP fanfic: stories too long, writers too needy. I think that's absolutely true. But I wonder if it's a vicious cycle that can't be stopped now, because the fandom is what it is. Writers *are* needy, but it's probably somewhat disheartening to see a 30-part fic posted as a WIP that might not be nearly as good as another 20-part fic that was posted all at once, get hundreds of reviews while the latter only gets a few dozen. That sort of thing encourages writers to post as a WIP, because the perceived rewards are greater. Also, when you're posting a WIP, depending on how long you take to write it, it gets circulated more. Whenever a new chapter comes out, everyone gets excited again. If you post your novel all at once, there might be a wave of excitement, but that will soon die down in favor of that same WIP that's been around for ages. That might not be right, but it's human nature both for readers *and* for writers.
It's more true for this fandom than I've seen in any other fandom. With The X-Files, people *frequently* wrote novels (with only betas reading it as a WIP) and posted them in their entirety. Work wasn't as quickly "lost" as it is in the HPdom. There were also a lot of stand-alone stories, short stories, vignettes, and long stories that were never, ever posted as WIPs. In XF, if you had a WIP, it basically *had* to be a long, long novel or you would look foolish. And most novels were truly meant to be novels -- not short story ideas that go on far too long, as Kimberly describes.
Part of this may be the feedback mechanism. In XF, we didn't really use FF.net, or any other archives where you publicly review stories on a message board. We had MBs, of course, and recommendation sites, but the primary way to feedback a writer was to email them. The pros and cons of *that* is really another topic, but sticking to this one, I wonder if that also has something to do with why writers in HPdom post WIPs -- reviews are a very public way of showing whether or not your story has merit. So it's natural that a writer would want to do what s/he can to gain reviews -- not just for personal satisfaction, but to encourage others to read their work as well. And the more reviews, the "better" the story supposedly is. So it's also a form of marketing.
I don't think writers ought to *write* for reviews. But writers *post* for reviews, and I can't say I blame them if they feel they have to go with the tide to get people to let them know that their efforts aren't going to waste, that their efforts are being appreciated.
It was really interesting to hear what all people thought about this, and I'm sorry I went on and on without much direction. But I had a bunch of thoughts and they just came tumbling out. If you made it this far ... kudos!
Sarea
Which do you prefer? The satisfaction of a completed story, or the thrill of a work in progress? Do you find waiting for each new installment part of the enjoyment of the reading process, or do you find it frustrating?
If you had to choose one form, what preference would you indicate to your favorite writers?
From the responses we got, people seemed to strongly prefer completed stories. I'm not really surprised by that, but I have to say I am surprised by the vehemence with which this preference was given.
As Ang pointed out, some writers seem to write *only* for reviews, and even hold fic "hostage" until they get a certain number. I have to say that I generally loathe such practices and it actually says quite a lot about the writer and likely, the quality of their writing. I've never seen a genuinely good writer ever make such demands ... and I think that's partly because true writers write for themselves, not for a public.
That being said, however, writers have fragile egos, and they *do* like for people to read their work.
But I think the point of the topic was to kind of explore the WIP dynamic within the HPdom. Clearly, most of us would prefer to read completed stories (and even those who don't mind WIPs probably wouldn't *mind* completed stories) -- so why do writers post WIPs? Nearly every story out there is a work in progress, and those that are complete were once WIPs as well. There is very little to recommend writing a WIP: 1) harder to plot; 2) harder to write; 3) possibility of having to go back and revise; 4) people chasing you down for the next part (which is both a positive and a negative, imho). So why do writers do it?
Some reasons have been given already, but I think the primary motivation is that of feedback. The truth is, this fandom is so used to the WIP that when they see a story with one chapter, they either don't bother to read it, thinking that there has to be more, and they'll read it when/if the writer shows that s/he is serious about committing to it and completing it; OR they think there's going to be more, and decide they'll review when it's "really over." I can't tell you how many people have told me that they're looking forward to getting a new installment of "Atypical Lesson" or "When I'm Here" -- both of which are stand-alone stories. I make it clear that the stories are complete, and yet I still get those comments, and there are probably people out there who think that there's going to be more.
Most likely, there's not. I've also noticed that this fandom clamors for a very tied-up ending, wherein all the loose strings are tied and all the characters live happily-ever-after type lives. We're not big on the telling of a story just to tell a story, that perhaps the vignette or the unresolved short story has merit *just as they are*. All of this contributes to the lack, I think, of writers attempting to write stories they can finish in just a few parts. Which is a shame, because the vignette is one of the most difficult and effective ways to tell a story, if done right. (As an example, I give you "Far-Off Fields" by Fearthainn.)
I completely agree with Kimberly, who sums up what she sees as the problems with HP fanfic: stories too long, writers too needy. I think that's absolutely true. But I wonder if it's a vicious cycle that can't be stopped now, because the fandom is what it is. Writers *are* needy, but it's probably somewhat disheartening to see a 30-part fic posted as a WIP that might not be nearly as good as another 20-part fic that was posted all at once, get hundreds of reviews while the latter only gets a few dozen. That sort of thing encourages writers to post as a WIP, because the perceived rewards are greater. Also, when you're posting a WIP, depending on how long you take to write it, it gets circulated more. Whenever a new chapter comes out, everyone gets excited again. If you post your novel all at once, there might be a wave of excitement, but that will soon die down in favor of that same WIP that's been around for ages. That might not be right, but it's human nature both for readers *and* for writers.
It's more true for this fandom than I've seen in any other fandom. With The X-Files, people *frequently* wrote novels (with only betas reading it as a WIP) and posted them in their entirety. Work wasn't as quickly "lost" as it is in the HPdom. There were also a lot of stand-alone stories, short stories, vignettes, and long stories that were never, ever posted as WIPs. In XF, if you had a WIP, it basically *had* to be a long, long novel or you would look foolish. And most novels were truly meant to be novels -- not short story ideas that go on far too long, as Kimberly describes.
Part of this may be the feedback mechanism. In XF, we didn't really use FF.net, or any other archives where you publicly review stories on a message board. We had MBs, of course, and recommendation sites, but the primary way to feedback a writer was to email them. The pros and cons of *that* is really another topic, but sticking to this one, I wonder if that also has something to do with why writers in HPdom post WIPs -- reviews are a very public way of showing whether or not your story has merit. So it's natural that a writer would want to do what s/he can to gain reviews -- not just for personal satisfaction, but to encourage others to read their work as well. And the more reviews, the "better" the story supposedly is. So it's also a form of marketing.
I don't think writers ought to *write* for reviews. But writers *post* for reviews, and I can't say I blame them if they feel they have to go with the tide to get people to let them know that their efforts aren't going to waste, that their efforts are being appreciated.
It was really interesting to hear what all people thought about this, and I'm sorry I went on and on without much direction. But I had a bunch of thoughts and they just came tumbling out. If you made it this far ... kudos!
Sarea
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no subject
Date: 2003-05-21 01:02 pm (UTC)WIPs irritate me because quite often I can see as I'm reading them that there isn't a real effort toward an overall plot. Two or three chapters may string together an idea, but the characters and motivations change like someone's underwear. Every new chapter it's some "stunning" revelation. Now, this may tie into a writer's desire for feedback, but more often than not, it's an indication of lazy writing. The author just came up with a story idea and started writing (which I understand) but didn't let it sit long enough to figure out where he/she wanted to story to go or end. It's indicates a lack of patience to me.
Re:
Date: 2003-05-21 01:08 pm (UTC)I tend to see these kinds of people as those needing constant affirmation of something, of themselves, and they just happened to choose the writing medium in which to get it. Those people aren't writers, they're praise hounds.
BTW I read "An Assault on the Senses" the other night and loved it. My favorite part was "sight" what with the hilarity of the stars in their eyes. LOL.
Re:
Date: 2003-05-21 01:20 pm (UTC)Am very happy now.
Will add more chapters if you give me 10 reviews. Or will I?
no subject
Date: 2003-05-21 01:19 pm (UTC)There is no way I would have completed LIAB had I waited to finish the entire thing before posting. I simply would have lost the motivation. People have been extremely kind in their feedback and their ideas and comments have been helpful at times.
However, I can understand the frustration at having to wait, but some authors who do long chapters are busy and it can take time to do each chapter.
*ponders* I guess I could write all of LIAC before I post it, but that means people would be waiting over a year before they got it. *ponders some more*
no subject
Date: 2003-05-21 01:31 pm (UTC)It seems to me that you had LIAB plotted out and even if you took a long time between chapters, each new chapter didn't have me going, "Huh? Where did that come from?" I don't mind a WIP that's plotted out. If you have a clear goal in mind, that makes the story much, much better. The time between chapters of a well thought out WIP may be a little annoying, but at least I know that it isn't being spent pulling something out of the author's ass.
Re:
Date: 2003-05-21 01:38 pm (UTC)And yes, LIAB was also plotted, although not to the extent LIAC is.
Break out the Raid!
Date: 2003-05-21 10:48 pm (UTC)love, lore
no subject
Date: 2003-05-21 02:20 pm (UTC)At this point, I'm not sure that I could reasonably ask any writer not to post their story as a WIP (especially a true novel such as LIAC). The HP fandom is what it is, and I don't think it's realistic to think we can change it. As
In short, you shouldn't post LIAC all at once. <g> Because, as I said in my long post, it isn't going to be fair wrt reviews. And really, if we're going to spend so much time laboring over our work, there ought to be some fruit, dammit.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-21 06:29 pm (UTC)The differences between the fandoms are really interesting, too. I come from the Buffy world, where most fics are vignettes, one-shots, first-person POVs, very emotional and romantic, etc, and overwhelmingly without a plot. Buffy fights the "Big Bad" every episode, but a minority of fics feature demons. In fact, A LOT of Buffy fics are AUs. And like in XF, apparently, there are no big places for fans to go and review fics. They just don't exist. You always email authors personally to review. Yes, there is FF.net, but think of it this way: the most popular Buffy fic on ff.net has 300 reviews. A popular HP fic will have 1000.
Coming to the HP fandom was a big culture shock. I discovered, whoa, you can't write short pointless fics and be popular! Popular fics are long, angsty, heavily-plotted WIPs starring Draco, Voldemort and the Death Eaters! It's very had to write these fics, personally. I'm better at the short, emotional stuff. I hate thinking up complicated plots involving Polyjuice and a mythical object and spells and Death Eaters and Dark Marks. And AUs just seem silly in the HP world.
I do find I enjoy reading WIPs, though. They keep you interested in what's happening, checking for updates. And the most amazing fics out there aren't finished yet. :)
Anyway, just my ramblings....
no subject
Date: 2003-05-22 03:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-22 02:22 pm (UTC)