thoughts, thoughts, thoughts
Jul. 25th, 2005 11:03 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sarea
I have to admit, I'm surprised by the fact that some people truly believe that Draco/Pansy was conclusive in HBP. (Rabid Draco/Pansy shippers excluded.) I mean...their behavior on the train would certainly allow for the possibility, and it might even be likely that they were going out. But Draco's head in her lap is conclusive proof of this? Uh, I don't think so. Last I checked, girls and boys still flirted outrageously without it having to indicate some kind of permanent attachment.
Again, this is not to say that they aren't/weren't going out. I just think it's just as likely/possible that they had the typical touchy-feely ease of girls and guys their age. I mean...I certainly had it. Junior high and high school was all about flirting outrageously with boys, and showing surface intimacy without there actually being intimacy. You know, the harmless arm-around-the-shoulder, hair petting, pick-up-and-toss-over-shoulder sort of behavior that didn't actually lead to any kissing or other 'sexual' activity.
And I fully realize that my opinion is biased, given that I ship a Draco ship that's not D/P, but I am just as convinced that Draco and Pansy weren't an item as the people who are convinced they were one. Who's right? Well, I think there's room for us all to be right, is the thing -- I don't think D/P was conclusive. But maybe that's just me.
Here are the reasons why I don't think Draco and Pansy were a real item in HBP. These aren't rock-solid pieces of evidence or anything; they're just things I noticed to make me come to my conclusion:
* If she were truly his girlfriend, I'm not sure she would have been so subtle about trying to see what he thought about Ginny Weasley's looks on the train. As a gf, she would have had the right to come out and ask him, either right then or in private. But clearly, she didn't know.
* Aside from the scene on the train and maybe one mention of Pansy pretty soon after that (if there even was one; I can't remember), Pansy was never mentioned again. You'd think boyfriends and girlfriends would hang out more -- and we know there was plenty of opportunity for Harry to observe it if it happened. He was utterly obsessed with Draco in HBP.
* Maybe Draco had bigger things on his mind than girlfriends and what not, given his involvement with the Dark Lord's plan. Okay, then what does that say about how high in esteem he holds Pansy, that he can't even confide in her or take comfort from her being his gf? I mean, he was confiding in Moaning Myrtle. If that doesn't speak of un-Draco-like behavior, I don't know what does. Clearly he couldn't find anyone else to confide in or take comfort from. Or what about the reverse, what does that say about Pansy, that she wasn't there for him (that we saw)? For sure she had little to nothing to do with his plan, the thing that was occupying most of his time, thoughts, energy. His 'support' basically came from Crabbe and Goyle, as usual. And fanon!Draco aside, there's no WAY it's because Draco was trying to be noble and keeping her from the ugly side of life. (The way Harry does for Ginny at the end of HBP.)
* We saw/heard nothing (NOTHING) of D/P after the Yule Ball. Was Pansy even mentioned in OotP?
* Plans for the future -- now that Draco's in this precarious situation wrt his loyalties, where do his old friends/acquaintences fit in? Do we imagine that all the Slytherin students will band together with their peers to fight the Dark Lord? Seems a bit improbable, particularly for those whose families have Death Eater ties. (I would bet anyone Draco associates with has that kind of background, including Pansy.) So would Pansy 'defect,' against everything she knows and everything she grew up with, and against her parents, if Draco were to switch sides? In fanfic, most certainly. In canon...I'm not so sure. If Draco doesn't switch sides, this is all moot -- D/P could happen easily -- but I truly don't believe things will remain status quo. At the very least, Draco might be hidden away and ne'er heard from again, but after HBP I don't see him following Voldemort anymore (particularly not when he's got Snape with him to help him).
* If anyone would feel like they deserved female attention and companionship without needing to make any kind of commitment himself, it's Draco Malfoy.
So...yeah. There are just too many unconvincing things about D/P to make me believe that they were an item as opposed to doing the normal boy/girl flirting in HBP. As little hope as I have for D/G in the series, I think there's more of a chance for D/G than D/P in book 7 -- that's how unconvinced I am. At the end of the series R/Hr is a 99% certainty, imho ... followed by H/G at 70% ... D/G at 10% ... and D/P at 5%. Those are my beliefs and I'm sticking to 'em.
Volume 9 of Hot Gimmick recently came out and I devoured it on Saturday. The wait for the next volumes is going to drive me over the edge. (Though I've cheated and read fan translations of the upcoming chapters up till the very final one. I don't know what's taking so long!!)
I've also now read all three Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants books. After getting past the hurdle of the first few chapters of the first book, I raced through these. They're not the densest books you'll ever read, and I can't say that I particularly love any of the protagonists, but there's something very compelling about them anyway.
My favorite book of the three is the second one; but I don't think I could have enjoyed the second one if the groundwork hadn't already been laid in book 1. See, my favorite storyline in book 2 was Bridget's (which surprised me, because of the four girls, I related to her the least in book 1). I love the idea of finding yourself again. And it'd be hard to show us how different Bridget was, without having first seen her as she normally is -- vital and a force of nature.
The disappointing, if understandable, thing is that the girls don't really change. Through all three books, they're basically learning the same lessons over and over again. Realistically, this makes sense; it takes time and effort to learn from our mistakes and change who we are. As works of fiction, it's a bit frustrating. We get it: Carmen is selfish and has to learn to be a bigger, better person (also I didn't like that she basically had the same issue in book 1 as in book 2). Tibby closes herself off from people (I love movie!Tibby so much more than book!Tibby) and has to learn to let them in. Lena has to learn to let herself love instead of distancing herself so she won't get hurt (basically Tibby's issues, though Lena's are usually romantic and Tibby's are not ... until book 3, at least). Bridget has mood swings and the fear that she's like her mother; she has trouble with being "single minded to the point of recklessness."
Given this, we've seen actually the most change come from Bridget. She didn't simply revert back to her old ways after her revelation in book 2; she actually learned from her mistakes, and we see that in book 3. (The only problem is that I have ZERO interest in Eric. I so wanted her to get with Billy Klein.)
Kostos. Ugh. I didn't really like him in book 1 or the movie (though I wouldn't say I disliked him, either), but after book 2 I'm just done with him. I don't think he's necessarily a bad guy, but...so not worth pining over. After the initial surprise (and disappointment; I kind of hoped it would be Carmen), I'm really kind of digging the idea of Lena/Paul. But things are slow moving on that front -- which is fine; Lena needs time. My only issue with Paul is that he seems totally different from how he was in book 1. Which is easily explained by the fact that Carmen wasn't exactly the most impartial narrator...but come on, this was the same guy who would go out with a girl like Skeletor?
I love Brian. I love the idea of Brian/Tibby. And I loved Bailey. It's just Tibby herself that I can't really seem to love. Maybe if they make more movies, Amber Tamblyn will work her magic again.
I find Carmen almost totally dislikable. Maybe because she reminds me of myself, and we always hate the faults of our own that we see in other people. I don't know what it is, but I think she's a total bitch. She's not a good person, and what's worse, she seems to realize it, but does nothing until the end of the book to do anything about it (and she's done it every single time!). She seems incredibly immature -- starting with how she contemplated going to Maryland instead of Williams. I can't believe it took her that long to figure out that her mother needed a real life, and to be happy, the same way her dad needed it in book 1 (and which Carmen was supposed to have realized!). I don't blame her for being weirded out by her mom's new husband, or the new baby. Those things are totally deserving of being weirded out by. But the way she goes about things, the little ways in which she hurts people and takes vengeance (yes!) on them, the way she can't be happy for the people around her (with the exception of her friends, but I'm not convinced it's unconditional), I really don't like.
I like that they have brothers and sisters; we get to know the characters better to see them interacting with their siblings; it's disappointing they left out such an important element in the movie. The pants become less and less important, to the point where seeing them mentioned just makes me roll my eyes. The premise has always been my issue with this series, and given the strength of the stories, the pants are really extraneous and unnecessary. How long are we supposed to believe in this lame premise (how long are they going to believe it?), particularly given the restrictions they've put on it? I mean, the pants can't be washed? EWWWW.
I finally met a cool person while playing WoW, that I can actually stand to interact with on a regular basis. The problem is, he's 14. It's like having a younger brother I can't actually abuse. But he's very sweet, so I don't feel the need to abuse him...yet.![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
heinous_bitca, I checked, and he's not your same 14-year-old. Gah.
Again, this is not to say that they aren't/weren't going out. I just think it's just as likely/possible that they had the typical touchy-feely ease of girls and guys their age. I mean...I certainly had it. Junior high and high school was all about flirting outrageously with boys, and showing surface intimacy without there actually being intimacy. You know, the harmless arm-around-the-shoulder, hair petting, pick-up-and-toss-over-shoulder sort of behavior that didn't actually lead to any kissing or other 'sexual' activity.
And I fully realize that my opinion is biased, given that I ship a Draco ship that's not D/P, but I am just as convinced that Draco and Pansy weren't an item as the people who are convinced they were one. Who's right? Well, I think there's room for us all to be right, is the thing -- I don't think D/P was conclusive. But maybe that's just me.
Here are the reasons why I don't think Draco and Pansy were a real item in HBP. These aren't rock-solid pieces of evidence or anything; they're just things I noticed to make me come to my conclusion:
* If she were truly his girlfriend, I'm not sure she would have been so subtle about trying to see what he thought about Ginny Weasley's looks on the train. As a gf, she would have had the right to come out and ask him, either right then or in private. But clearly, she didn't know.
* Aside from the scene on the train and maybe one mention of Pansy pretty soon after that (if there even was one; I can't remember), Pansy was never mentioned again. You'd think boyfriends and girlfriends would hang out more -- and we know there was plenty of opportunity for Harry to observe it if it happened. He was utterly obsessed with Draco in HBP.
* Maybe Draco had bigger things on his mind than girlfriends and what not, given his involvement with the Dark Lord's plan. Okay, then what does that say about how high in esteem he holds Pansy, that he can't even confide in her or take comfort from her being his gf? I mean, he was confiding in Moaning Myrtle. If that doesn't speak of un-Draco-like behavior, I don't know what does. Clearly he couldn't find anyone else to confide in or take comfort from. Or what about the reverse, what does that say about Pansy, that she wasn't there for him (that we saw)? For sure she had little to nothing to do with his plan, the thing that was occupying most of his time, thoughts, energy. His 'support' basically came from Crabbe and Goyle, as usual. And fanon!Draco aside, there's no WAY it's because Draco was trying to be noble and keeping her from the ugly side of life. (The way Harry does for Ginny at the end of HBP.)
* We saw/heard nothing (NOTHING) of D/P after the Yule Ball. Was Pansy even mentioned in OotP?
* Plans for the future -- now that Draco's in this precarious situation wrt his loyalties, where do his old friends/acquaintences fit in? Do we imagine that all the Slytherin students will band together with their peers to fight the Dark Lord? Seems a bit improbable, particularly for those whose families have Death Eater ties. (I would bet anyone Draco associates with has that kind of background, including Pansy.) So would Pansy 'defect,' against everything she knows and everything she grew up with, and against her parents, if Draco were to switch sides? In fanfic, most certainly. In canon...I'm not so sure. If Draco doesn't switch sides, this is all moot -- D/P could happen easily -- but I truly don't believe things will remain status quo. At the very least, Draco might be hidden away and ne'er heard from again, but after HBP I don't see him following Voldemort anymore (particularly not when he's got Snape with him to help him).
* If anyone would feel like they deserved female attention and companionship without needing to make any kind of commitment himself, it's Draco Malfoy.
So...yeah. There are just too many unconvincing things about D/P to make me believe that they were an item as opposed to doing the normal boy/girl flirting in HBP. As little hope as I have for D/G in the series, I think there's more of a chance for D/G than D/P in book 7 -- that's how unconvinced I am. At the end of the series R/Hr is a 99% certainty, imho ... followed by H/G at 70% ... D/G at 10% ... and D/P at 5%. Those are my beliefs and I'm sticking to 'em.
Volume 9 of Hot Gimmick recently came out and I devoured it on Saturday. The wait for the next volumes is going to drive me over the edge. (Though I've cheated and read fan translations of the upcoming chapters up till the very final one. I don't know what's taking so long!!)
I've also now read all three Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants books. After getting past the hurdle of the first few chapters of the first book, I raced through these. They're not the densest books you'll ever read, and I can't say that I particularly love any of the protagonists, but there's something very compelling about them anyway.
My favorite book of the three is the second one; but I don't think I could have enjoyed the second one if the groundwork hadn't already been laid in book 1. See, my favorite storyline in book 2 was Bridget's (which surprised me, because of the four girls, I related to her the least in book 1). I love the idea of finding yourself again. And it'd be hard to show us how different Bridget was, without having first seen her as she normally is -- vital and a force of nature.
The disappointing, if understandable, thing is that the girls don't really change. Through all three books, they're basically learning the same lessons over and over again. Realistically, this makes sense; it takes time and effort to learn from our mistakes and change who we are. As works of fiction, it's a bit frustrating. We get it: Carmen is selfish and has to learn to be a bigger, better person (also I didn't like that she basically had the same issue in book 1 as in book 2). Tibby closes herself off from people (I love movie!Tibby so much more than book!Tibby) and has to learn to let them in. Lena has to learn to let herself love instead of distancing herself so she won't get hurt (basically Tibby's issues, though Lena's are usually romantic and Tibby's are not ... until book 3, at least). Bridget has mood swings and the fear that she's like her mother; she has trouble with being "single minded to the point of recklessness."
Given this, we've seen actually the most change come from Bridget. She didn't simply revert back to her old ways after her revelation in book 2; she actually learned from her mistakes, and we see that in book 3. (The only problem is that I have ZERO interest in Eric. I so wanted her to get with Billy Klein.)
Kostos. Ugh. I didn't really like him in book 1 or the movie (though I wouldn't say I disliked him, either), but after book 2 I'm just done with him. I don't think he's necessarily a bad guy, but...so not worth pining over. After the initial surprise (and disappointment; I kind of hoped it would be Carmen), I'm really kind of digging the idea of Lena/Paul. But things are slow moving on that front -- which is fine; Lena needs time. My only issue with Paul is that he seems totally different from how he was in book 1. Which is easily explained by the fact that Carmen wasn't exactly the most impartial narrator...but come on, this was the same guy who would go out with a girl like Skeletor?
I love Brian. I love the idea of Brian/Tibby. And I loved Bailey. It's just Tibby herself that I can't really seem to love. Maybe if they make more movies, Amber Tamblyn will work her magic again.
I find Carmen almost totally dislikable. Maybe because she reminds me of myself, and we always hate the faults of our own that we see in other people. I don't know what it is, but I think she's a total bitch. She's not a good person, and what's worse, she seems to realize it, but does nothing until the end of the book to do anything about it (and she's done it every single time!). She seems incredibly immature -- starting with how she contemplated going to Maryland instead of Williams. I can't believe it took her that long to figure out that her mother needed a real life, and to be happy, the same way her dad needed it in book 1 (and which Carmen was supposed to have realized!). I don't blame her for being weirded out by her mom's new husband, or the new baby. Those things are totally deserving of being weirded out by. But the way she goes about things, the little ways in which she hurts people and takes vengeance (yes!) on them, the way she can't be happy for the people around her (with the exception of her friends, but I'm not convinced it's unconditional), I really don't like.
I like that they have brothers and sisters; we get to know the characters better to see them interacting with their siblings; it's disappointing they left out such an important element in the movie. The pants become less and less important, to the point where seeing them mentioned just makes me roll my eyes. The premise has always been my issue with this series, and given the strength of the stories, the pants are really extraneous and unnecessary. How long are we supposed to believe in this lame premise (how long are they going to believe it?), particularly given the restrictions they've put on it? I mean, the pants can't be washed? EWWWW.
I finally met a cool person while playing WoW, that I can actually stand to interact with on a regular basis. The problem is, he's 14. It's like having a younger brother I can't actually abuse. But he's very sweet, so I don't feel the need to abuse him...yet.
heinous_bitca, I checked, and he's not your same 14-year-old. Gah.
